Date Rape and the Fantasy Novel

WTF, nerd authors?  Raping a woman is not going to make her want to be your girlfriend.  SRSLY.

Read some current romance novels!  Note how they no longer do that!!  Women do not want to be raped.  No means no.  No might mean you need to become a better person or it may mean to get lost forever, but it never ever means yes.

Not that some Vampire novels are much better, but at least they generally seduce rather than force.  Though in some cases, depending on the Vampire universe, the seduction is akin to a roofie.  Though definitely not in all Vampire books.

And while I’m at it, why do Cosmo covers always say, “How to please your man”?  Why don’t they say, “How to get mondo enjoyment from your sex life?”  I guess I have seen covers in which they say that but they are always talking about masturbation.  Can’t a woman have sex with a man for her own pleasure?

No wonder loser* atheist nerds get all bent out of shape when a woman requests politely that she not be propositioned in elevators anymore.  What kind of literature are we feeding these people?

*Not all losers are atheists.  Not all atheists are losers.  The subset of atheists who are sexist bastards is also a subset of losers.

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20 Responses to “Date Rape and the Fantasy Novel”

  1. Comradde PhysioProffe Says:

    That whole elevator thing made me f*cken sicke: that a substantial number of supposedly “skeptical” men feel like being asked not to proposition women in elevators is some kind of oppression.

  2. Molly Says:

    Here’s my theory:
    If girls/women learn to masturbate they will be less satisfied with having crappy sex with boys/men who don’t take the time to learn their way around a woman’s anatomy (come on guys, there are books and the internet!). The girl/woman will have a reason to tell her lover that he is doing a shitty job and teach them the ‘how’s’ on doing better.
    Once you have a first hand experience of what the orgasm is all about you will be more likely to point out when your lover is ‘in the weeds’ and headed over the hill (and up into the starry sky). Hopefully she won’t waste her time with cute guys that don’t know how to f**k. (I know he’s cute but COME ON!) I believe that this would/might/oh, please god make it happen mean less sex for teenagers (definitely more masturbation though). Unless, of course they are being sexual satisfied, which means they are actually communicating.
    You two really brought out the potty mouth in me today…
    I waiting for my crucifixion on this comment!! Mike did help me write it :)

    • nicoleandmaggie Says:

      I’m sure that’s what Redbook and Cosmo are thinking! (Well, maybe not, but perhaps a byproduct)

    • MutantSupermodel Says:

      Disagree. It’s not just about masturbation. It’s about masturbation AND the public message of sex and the woman’s orgasm. If a girl learns to masturbate and achieve orgasm through masturbation, it’s not enough to make the connection to orgasm with a partner. It’s only enough to understand orgasm on her own terms.

      If “everyone” (media and friends who lie) tells them orgasm through intercourse (especially solely as a result of penetration) for a woman is natural and as easy, if not more so, than an orgasm through masturbation, she will assume something is wrong with HER and may then subject herself to an endless number of disappointing sexual encounters assuming the entire time the problem is hers alone.

      • Molly Says:

        I agree. I think masturbation is just the first part. The second is communicating to their partner. The third is to recognize their own sex drive and orgasm will be different from one another and change as they get older.

  3. Linda Says:

    “Can’t a woman have sex with a man for her own pleasure?” Apparently not: http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2011/07/18/a-bit-of-lighthearted-fun/

    I find that quite depressing. It doesn’t stop me from getting down with my guy, but apparently I’m not really consenting to sex. Even if I do enjoy it.

    • Spanish Prof Says:

      That is why I don’t understand the admiration that bloggers I respect a lot have for that particular blog. If you want even more depressing, check the debate they had this week on “intersectionality”, where some regular commenters ended up with openly racist comments.

  4. Spanish Prof Says:

    Glamour magazine is a little better at the “couple’s sex satisfaction” articles. They are usually about “how to both enjoy a great night” kind of thing. I suggest switching subscriptions.

  5. Jacq Says:

    Saw skepchick’s video and the guy just seemed kind of socially inept. But it was probably a little scary for her and she was lucky he didn’t have bad intentions or at least backed off. Context is king. Or queen.
    Having said that, as a singleton that’s a bit older and not romantically aggressive myself, I sort of wish decent single men these days were a little more aggressive in their approaches like they used to be. Although, come to think of it, the decent ones never were that aggressive I guess. Probably why they’re decent.
    http://xkcd.com/642/
    If I had daughters, there’s probably 2 things I’d give them: a set of weights + self defense classes (I took mine from the best, although I should have done it younger – Dawn Callan) and a Rabbit.
    Generally, I like Dawkins, maybe he needs to spend a few minutes in a prison cell with some dude that finds him attractive to get it. Yet I also don’t totally disagree with his point either (see, I never can make up my mind). As someone who has been sexually harassed many times at work and assaulted several times in my younger days, it seems a little on the trivial side as an example. Sorry if I feel that way, but there it is.
    Maybe I’m getting too old to really care about this stuff anymore (I definitely used to), but I wouldn’t raise a big brouhaha over this post of skepchick’s that objectified women either:
    http://skepchick.org/2006/04/a-very-heretical-easter/

    • nicoleandmaggie Says:

      As Pharyngula pointed out, Rebecca Watkins DIDN’T raise a big brouhaha, she simply asked that people not proposition people in elevators. Which is not a massive sort of punishment. She didn’t ask that people who do such things be castrated, she just said, hey guys, this is not the way to pick up chicks. The resulting brouhaha caused by men denigrating her (and all other women) because of the simple request is the problem.

  6. First Gen American Says:

    My favorite genre of books is historical fiction, by a wide margin. I like reading about love, but I hate romance novels or anything with graphic sex in it. It’s hard for people to get it right when writing in detail about it and it’s usually off putting for me. It’s kind of like when someone doesn’t know how to write a character of the opposite sex well. Even if the rest of the story is good, those kinds of flaws just grate on me through the whole book.

  7. Jacq Says:

    Yes, I know that, I read Myers’ post and some of the comments. I didn’t think her video was making a stink, it was a funny (due to the irony of it) little anecdote. I just wouldn’t have expected that anecdote to have multiple posts about it going around in the atheist world as some example of ???. Must have been a slow week.

    • nicoleandmaggie Says:

      No, it wasn’t a slow week… it really is a symptom of a sick and clueless community. Women are not allowed to ask men not to view them as prey in that culture, no matter how gently they ask.

      (Perhaps organized atheists are just as bad as other organized religions, and it’s organizations, not religion that’s the root of the evils of the world..)

  8. Rumpus Says:

    Oh man, Tiger Beatdown’s description is hilarious. I particularly liked “The only major female character to go without a single rape, attempted rape, sexual assault or incident of partner violence? Catelyn Stark. Who, as you may recall, is dead. And a zombie.” With prompting I remember that the Song of Fire and Ice had gross sex scenes, rape, etc, and I condemn it whenever I remember that, but even while reading the series I would forget. It may be the patriarchy in me, but I am so jaded about sex scenes (even horribly inappropriate ones) in sci-fi, horror, and fantasy that I basically forget them as soon as I read them. I think sex scenes are predominantly tacked on and so regardless of what happens in the scene I interpret it as not actually being part of the book.

    • nicoleandmaggie Says:

      Excerpt from a recent conversation with partner:

      Me: “So what you’re saying is that you’re uncomfortable with George RR Martin’s books because you can get laid– there is a woman who will have consensual sex with you– and people who like his books can’t.”

  9. A budding feminist spec fic reader | Grumpy rumblings of the (formerly!) untenured Says:

    […] be feminist.  Turns out that’s not true.  She’s a VERY BAD CHOICE as she promotes rape culture.  (Third book, protagonist rapes his girlfriend, and makes everything ok by helping her clean […]


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