Ask the grumpies: How much to spend on a wedding present?

Grad Advisor asks:

A colleague and I co-advised a student who graduated a couple of years ago. The student is now getting married and the colleague and I are both invited to the wedding. The colleague wants to buy a present together and split the cost, which is a great idea. The problem is that the colleague wants to buy three little-ish things that together cost $90 and split that in two. I think that’s too cheap. If we were grad students, sure, that would be a good amount, but we are both grownups with salaries and I think we should be able to buy something bigger. (I haven’t talked with the colleague about this yet as I am not sure what to say.)

How much would be customary to spend in this type of occasion? Someone told me it depends on whether they feed you or not etc. but I find it hard to believe it’s just tit for tat (i.e. I should spend no more than the price of my and my husband’s meal and drink or whatever). So what’s the etiquette?

Miss Manners definitely frowns on the idea of tit for tat.  And there really is no specific etiquette– you don’t have to buy a gift at all if you don’t want to.  I tend to give $50 in cash for friends and acquaintances and $100 in cash to family and close friends (sometimes more depending on the circumstances).  When it’s a friend who has a lot of money already, I just buy something between $45 and $80 off the registry depending on what catches my eye.  But most folks just starting out could use the money more than they can use household items, to pay off the wedding if nothing else.  (About.com has guidelines, as do many other websites.)

Honestly, you can give whatever you want.  At our wedding, we got many large checks from DH’s side for our wedding, and only trinkets from my side.  The difference being the need for social insurance in the two cultures.  If you feel like giving more than $45, then just tell your colleague that you’re planning on cutting a check, and cut the check.  Or if there’s something else you have in mind, tell the colleague you have something else in mind.

The real etiquette answer here is that you can give whatever you want, but you cannot dictate what your colleague should give.

Grumpy Nation, how much do you spend on wedding gifts?  What advice would you have for grad advisor?

How do you refer to someone’s romantic partner?

If they’re married, you can say husband or wife.  If they’re engaged, there’s various spellings of fiance.

What about all those other situations?

Boyfriend and Girlfriend sound a bit adolescent.  As do “young gentleman” and “young lady.”

We use partner a lot, but we’ve heard people complain that it often signals a non-heterosexual relationship or a couple that does not believe in marriage, and so it’s too focused to be used more generally.  (We use it anyway, just not with people who complain about it.)

#1 is a big fan of significant other, or SO for short.  She picked that up from her mom.  But Debbie M suggests that she has many others in her life who play significant roles, “Highly significant other–in a good way”–isn’t quite right either, though.

Sometimes I’ll say, “your guy” if I can’t remember the guy’s name.  (Shhh.)  But it doesn’t seem to work so well in my mind if the significant other in question is female.

We don’t say, “your old man” or “your old lady” anymore.  And with good reason!  My grandma used to say beau.  Does anybody say swain anymore?

Soulmate seems a bit personal.  I figure people can make that determination about their own partners but probably not about other couples.

Mi mama sometimes says inamorato(a).  What can I say, we’re a family of romantics.  (Though with exes, it is always “former flame”.  What can I say, we adore alliteration.)

Some other suggestions:  helpmeet? life partner? partner in Romance?  Most significant other?  Best beloved?

How do you refer to someone’s romantic partner?

Dear Family,

I love you all so very much and I am so grateful to have you in my life.  I love getting tiny presents from you at Christmas, because you were thinking of me.  I love shopping and trying to find the perfect gift for you.  I love Skyping you and seeing pictures of your new baby.  I love you all.

That having been said, there are some things I really have enough of.  I really don’t need as many gifts, just a card or a book or a photo is great.  Or a letter.  But if you’re going to get me gifts, we’ve got more than enough of:

• beer steins / glasses.  We love the ones we got this year from family, all with personal meaning, but we have to store them and only one of us drinks beer at all (and I’m a lightweight).  We’re at the max.
• scarves.  They are gorgeous and I often wear them, but I only have one neck!  Likewise earrings, though many of you have beautiful taste:  I have only 2 ears.
• candles.  We don’t need more, thanks.
• re-useable bags for groceries or whatever.  I love them, but we now have quite a collection.
• placemats or other kitchen pretty things.  We don’t entertain, and we’re not fancy.  We carefully fold these things up and keep them for a year or until the next move, whichever comes first, then they go to Goodwill.  Or get regifted.

Please do keep sending books, if you want.  We can never have too many!  Also tiny, handcrafted chocolates are always appreciated.  We don’t need money but thank you for the checks; we’ll use them for something fun.  Tiny things that make you think of us are great.  I actually like socks.  Once again, we love you, and thank you.  But please stop with the candles.

Readers, is there anything you’ve gotten too many of, or that people just keep on getting you?

#2 notes that her partner’s mother got her an incredibly nice bathrobe… that is almost identical to the one her partner’s mother got her a few years back and is still in great shape.  #2 also notes that she believes there are still candles from wedding presents stored in her parents basement.  She hates candles and flowers.  Fortunately people seem to have stopped getting her either.  #2 also wonders what her partner’s sister is going to do now that there’s no longer anything marked “low” or “lowest” priority on #2′s Amazon wishlist.  She might have to go up to medium!  (Not that #2 is sensing a pattern or anything… And really, she shouldn’t feel obligated to get anything at all!)

We like nuts

Love nuts!  The nuttiness of the almond, the bitter tannin giving way to the rich meat of the walnut, the sweetness of the pecan, the creaminess of the cashew.

I think my favorite nut is the hazelnut.  There’s just something special about that flavor.

I like them best roasted and lightly salted, though second best without salt.  I miss TJ’s half salted nuts– they had the right amount.  (#2 likes a lot of salt)

Male chocolate chip cookies are my favorite.

Sometimes I will add roasted salted nuts to the ice cream I’m eating.  Nom.

#1: What kind of nuts do you like?

#2: many kinds
cashews. pecans. walnuts. hazelnuts. pistachios. almonds.

#1: hm
I think you will have to add to the blog post yourself
too complicated for me!

#2: hee

#1: and I’m sure CPP will say that our tastes in nuts are plebeian

#2: hehe
I like almost all nuts I have ever tried.

#1: I’m actually not crazy about brazil nuts

#2: I will eat them in with other things

#1: I used to really like macadamia

#2: oooo I forgot those. Those are really good!

#1: and I think I still like small (hazelnut sized) macadamia chunks in double chocolate chunk cookies

#2: I like macadamia

#1: I like to say macadamia

#2: gazebo

#1: exactly

What is your favorite nut?

Favorite authors to read and reread

Diana Wynne Jones

Nina Kiriki Hoffman

Terry Pratchett

LM Montgomery

Georgette Heyer

Mercedes Lackey (ok, schlocky, but hits the spot sometimes)  [#2 not a big Lackey fan]

Dorothy L. Sayers

Charlotte Bronte

Jane Austen

Anne Lamott

Dave Barry (“I wouldn’ta married her if she wasn’t a breather!”)

So, grumpeteers, who are yours?  Who do you reread when you need emotion regulation?  I actually just re-read Sex and the Single Girl because it is silly.  Sometimes I re-read John Scalzi’s books about writing.

Quick note to the most amazing person in my world

Everything I said last year is still true… except we’ve added another year and another child on the way.  I cannot tell you how much I love you.  Every day is better because you’re in it.

Thank you for:

taking such good care of me
being the most awesome daddy
making yummy ice cream
being warm at night when it’s cold
talking me down (and giving me food) when I’m irritated
being able to fix anything
feeding me when I’m hungry
listening to me when I need to think something out
suggesting things when my mind is gone
reminding me to exercise
being fun to talk with and be with
reminding me to take my lunch
being the kind of guy who regularly calls his grandma
being tall, dark, and handsome, and having a great chin
helping me get up
telling horrible puns: No wait, not that one
always being there when I need you

Like DC says, I love you *this* much, where *this* is as wide as my arms can go.  But it’s even more than that.  Like infinity.  :)

Thoughts on spouses and careers

Get Rich Slowly did an article about a woman who is a self-proclaimed “sugar-momma.”

The person in the post is to be commended… she’s doing what she wants to be doing in the career of her choice and building experience and credentials, and she’s also supporting her DH allowing him to fill his career goals through more education.  This situation sounds like it is going to work out.

One thing I would caution for women in general is not to sacrifice their own career goals for their husband’s education. As an academic, I know plenty of couples where the woman worked at what she considered to be a temporary job to put her husband through school, but rather than return the favor later (as implicitly promised), they got divorced. Sacrificing one’s own ambitions puts a lot of stress on the marriage, no matter which spouse is doing the sacrificing.

Apparently that situation is not limited to academics.  Plenty of folks in the comments chimed in about other situations of both sexes when one sacrificed and then they divorced.  I doubt that most couples going into that kind of a situation are planning to use their spouses for easy living followed by trading in for a younger model.  However, resentment (or guilt) can build when one member of the couple feels like he or she is sacrificing for the other.  On top of that, school changes people.  While one is working at a dead-end job, the other is becoming a different person.

Even though it may take more loans and definitely less spending, why can’t both people pursue their goals at the same time?

Sometimes that kind of joint pursuit is not possible (for example, if one member of the couple cannot get a visa in a foreign country).  But oftentimes the joint pursuit really is possible, except that both people have to sacrifice some not just one sacrificing a lot.  Is it better for both to sacrifice, even if the total sacrifice is bigger (imagine a world with no fancy cheese)?  Or is it better for only one person to take all the sacrifice?

What do you all think?  Did you make sacrifices for your partner?  Did your partner sacrifice for you?  Or were you on your own in the pursuit of education and career?

Looking for more stories than you find in the comments here?  Try our guest blog cross-post at Scientopia for takes from academics.

Would you marry for money?

Would you marry for money?  We know, or have known, people who do want to.  It would sure be nice to have that outside income that doesn’t require one to say, work for it.  It’s just as easy to fall in love with a rich [person] as with a poor one, to paraphrase a Marilyn Monroe character in a movie.

Even if one isn’t gold-digging for a rich spouse and a life of luxury, money can be a signal of other personality aspects.  Some people (even high earners) want to marry someone who earns more than they do because it signals that the person has what it takes… they’re a doctor or lawyer or investment banker.  Unless the person inherited the wealth, a high earner generally isn’t lazy.

On the other hand, money can act as power differential.  In economic models, the bread-winner also has more say in family decision making (or greater “bargaining power”).  I would have to have complete and utter trust in my spouse (or at least an iron-clad pre-nup) before giving up a career and income stream of my own.  Additionally, as someone who grew up several income quintiles away from rich, I think I might feel uncomfortable marrying someone who inherited a much higher economic class if I were expected to give up my life to fit into some Real Housewives or Hamptons lifestyle.

We’re both still with our high school sweethearts, and, given said sweethearts don’t have family wealth and trust funds to fall back on, we made those decisions before we knew about their earning power.  (There are so many guys we could have dated who are now multi-millionaires!  But we made the right choices.  Maybe if instead of graduate school we’d gone to Silicon Valley…)  But I don’t know what our choices would have been if we’d waited until most people have established careers to settle down.  Would I be willing to date a part-time barista?  What if he was slumming as a barista but had a large trust fund?  Or if he was a barista as a day job but really a writer?  I can’t say.  I can say that if my partner stops earning money, I will be happy to support him with whatever he wants to do.  But in terms of seeking someone new out… I hope I never have to figure out the answer to that question.

Related:  Femmefrugality discusses sugarbabies.

What about you?  Would you marry for money?  Do/Did income, wealth, or career influence your dating life?

My cousin’s wedding

We went to my cousin’s wedding. It was a lovely wedding– very unlike any wedding I’ve yet been to, but a lot like the weddings in the movies (you know, like The Wedding Crashers… never understood why someone would *want* to go to a wedding they weren’t invited to).  The ceremony was short and simple, though there were a lot of attendants, complete with flower girl and ring-bearer.  The bride had both her father and step-father give her away, one on each arm.  The Lutheran minister was kind of a jolly middle-aged woman.  The gentlemen were almost all in army dress uniforms.  From my cousin’s face, you could not tell he was hit by a roadside bomb in Afghanistan just a few months ago.  He’s still not walking correctly and never may, but the damage seems to mainly be concentrated in one leg.

The wedding was in a part of the country where folks are not as stiff as Midwesterners or as unstructured as Northern Californians.  I’ve been to Midwestern wedding receptions that tried to be like this reception, but the soul wasn’t there so they always ended up being kind of lame with folks congregated in the parking lot to talk away from the DJ.  People at this wedding line-danced (and not just to country music) and they enjoyed it.  My usually introverted uncle is apparently a dancing fiend and led the bride in some traditional dances.  The food was great and full of local specialties (including something we heard about on the Splendid table from their road trip foodies).  And, important in my book for any wedding, they served appetizers between the wedding and reception.

You may recall that the groom’s parents had said they refused to attend because he was not getting married by a priest.  Not only did they not show up, despite his being hit by a roadside bomb in service to our country, they did not allow any siblings to come.  The daughter whose college my parents and aunts are paying was threatened with being disowned when her mother found out she was planning to attend.  So she didn’t go.  Guests kept asking if I was a sister.  No, not a sister.

But all of my aunts and uncles went, and I have a lot of aunts and uncles. It was funny to see all my uncles and my cousin and the characteristic ears of that side of the family.  The family resemblance is especially strong with military haircuts.  All my uncles are ex-military and they bonded with my cousin’s army buddies.  Not much has changed in the army in the past 30-40 years.  SNAFUs still abound.  My aunts talked about how the world has changed and wondered if the homophobic father of the groom realized his favorite aunt (after whom one of his daughters is named) was a lesbian.  How nice it would have been if she’d been around today and been able to share her relationship with her “companion” out in the open.

They openly wondered what had happened to my uncle– he’d always been rigid and never had a sense of humor, but wasn’t such a hater until he married his wife.  Perhaps he could have been rigid and humorless for the powers of good if he’d married someone else.  Ironically, the woman he married and is refusing to countenance this wedding is a divorced mother of three… but the difference is that she got the Pope to annul that marriage, so somehow that made it ok.  There was some speculation that perhaps the bride is better off with her mother-in-law not talking to her.

My childless aunt and uncle took over duties of parents of the groom. The groom gave an especially moving speech about how grateful he was for his family to come and show the support they were showing.  The bride sent a lovely thank-you note with the same sentiments.  As the wedding party was breaking up for the folks having to catch planes, the bride and groom made plans to visit all of my aunts and uncles who live in interesting and accessible places.  My family does take care of its own, even when some members refuse to.

My cousin and his new wife are very nice people.  I know they will have a lifetime of happiness together.  And if their children and step-children are close with their great-aunts and uncles rather than their grandparents on my side of the family, well, that’s not such a bad thing.

Best spouses by discipline

In the highly educated marriage market, I have always maintained that engineers make the best partners (possible exception:  chemical engineers who tend to be a mixed batch, possibly depending on what kind of chemicals they’ve been sniffing), and male economists or physicists tend to make the worst.  There’s just something about engineers that says husband (or wife), and not just the old stereotype that they’re too unimaginative to cheat.  They’re interesting and reliable and they’re good at fixing things without blaming.  They’re incredibly patient, probably because you can’t debug without patience.  Also, many of them (the male ones) are shy and once you get past that, there’s some pretty high quality man-meat that hasn’t been snapped up simply because they haven’t had as much opportunity to find a mate .

Obviously not all engineers are perfect (the ones who smell bad… they may die alone unless they learn to make friends with soap), and not every engineer will be your perfect mate, but on average, they’re a good group to look into.

Do you think this is total unwarranted discrimination or do you think some disciplines make better spouses than others?  (If so, is it selection into degree or training from the degree?)  Who would you recommend for a mate?